It seems like this Herring Gull problem just keeps reappearing. I printed out a checklist on 12/31/2008 to use for recording my 2009 sightings and Herring Gull appeared on both my MN and my ND checklists. Now that I have seen my first Herring Gull for 2009 and wanted to enter it in Birder's Diary, Herring Gull is no where to be found. I'm using ABA NA 2008 wSubspecies. Where did it go?

Hi Connie,

The answer is of the sort where you must compare apples to apples and orange to oranges. Totally confused?

The ABA w/subspecies Herring Gull is not found in the "ABA without subspecies" tax list - only in the "ABA w/subspecies" tax list. The reason is that the ABA without subspecies tax list Herring Gull points to the ABA w/species L argentatus smithsonianus - a subspecies in the ABA w/subspecies tax list.

As long as you use the ABA w/subspecies tax list to enter sightings, use it also to produce reports.

Maybe this list of factoids will explain it better:

1. If you enter a sighting for Herring Gull using ABA w/o subspecies, it will show up under ABA w/subspecies as the subspecies L a smithsonianus.
2. If you enter a sighting for Herring Gull using ABA w/subspecies, it will not show up on any report using ABA w/o subspecies.
3. ABA w/o subspecies Herring Gull maps to ABA w/subspecies L a smithsonianus.

In short, use the ABA w/subspecies tax list for everything (reports, sightings entry) and you won't have this problem.

If you want to use both ABA w/subspecies and ABA w/o subspecies, then you want to edit all of your "ABA w/subspecies sightings of Herring Gull" and change them to L a smithsonianus - the subspecies/race that occurs in NA.

When you say, "...and wanted to enter it in BD, Herring Gull is no where to be found." - please tell me exactly what you are doing (the Sightings Entry Setup window settings) to make you say this.

Let's start here and let me know if I can answer any further questions.

Jeff

I assume you're trying to add sightings using a location filter for MN or ND?  The full species Herring Gull from the ABA subspecies taxonomy doesn't show up b/c it hasn't been tied to those locations.  The subspecies Herring (American) Gull should show up, though, b/c that's the only subspecies that has ever been recorded in those states.  As long as you click the "Show subspecies" box on the checklist entry set-up screen, Herring Gull should be there.

I didn't think this would be an issue b/c I assumed people using the subspecies taxonomy would click that box when entering sightings.  If others are having a similar problem and use the ABA subspecies taxonomy to enter sightings only at the species level sometimes, let me know.  It's a very quick fix to adjust the checklists accordingly.

Nick

Oops, I guess Jeff was posting at the same time.  He explained the mechanics behind the problem much better than I could have.

Ahhh. While I may have explained the mechanics Nick - I think you have probably hit upon what the real issue is that Connie is asking about. Didn't occur to me.

In that case, and I should have caught this during a quality analysis, it has always been an axiom, that all full species contain the union of all locations of their subspecies. I thought this might be a problem in conflict with Clements 6.3.2, but it isn't as both ABA w/subspecies and Clements 6.3.2 use the thing Herring Gull as the full species and American Herring Gull as L a simthsonianus. But, and I think this problem stems from Clements 2008 in that American Herring Gull is a full species under that tax list and forced a disconnection between the two.

In either case, I now believe that the thing Herring Gull should revert back to a union of all herring gull subspecies locations.

Comments?

Jeff

I agree, and I almost posted a checklist to remedy the problem, but I wanted to wait for your thoughts.  Here's a checklist that will quickly add the 'thing' Herring Gull to all locations of its subspecies.  Import using any taxonomy that contains the 'thing' Herring Gull and choose the Do Not Overwrite option.

Nick

Thanks Nick!

When I try to enter a Herring Gull in the sightings, checklist entry, and use North Dakota as the filter location, there is no Herring Gull in the list of birds, not just as a subspecies, but as a species at all, it's not there, even with the "show subspecies" box checked.

So then I tried using ABA Area as my filter location, and there is no Herring Gull on that list either.

So then I tried using ABA Area Northcentral US, and there is no Herring Gull on that list either.

When I finally tried ABA NorthAmerican Region as the location filter, I was finally able to add my sighting. It's just frustrating to have to go through so much work to enter a bird that's not a rare sighting for ND, and by the time I have to enter my next Herring Gull I will have forgotten which filter location I eventually found it.

Hi Connie,

A couple things -

1. Are you specifying the ABA w/subspecies 2008 tax list in the Sightings Setup window?
2. Import the attached checklist file from the post above by Nick
   1. Download the CSV file to your local disk
   2. Start BD and select File | Import/Export
   3. Click on the Checklists TAB
   4. Select ABA w/subspecies 2008 from the taxonomy dropdown
   5. Uncheck the Analyze checkbox
   6. Check the Do Not Overwrite radio button
   7. Click the first Import button and select the CSV file you downloaded, and click Open
   8. Let the import run.

You should be set now. But this raises the question of whether you have your complete checklist file imported with the ABA w/subspecies tax list. You can always re-import that as well. But see how the process above works first. That will certainly fix your herring gull issue. But if you never successfully imported your checklist data from the tax list, there may be more holes.

Let us know,

Jeff

Using Nick's Attachment: Herring_Gull_checklist.csv solved the problem. Thank you.

Excellent. Thanks for letting us know Connie.

I have updated the ABA w/Subspecies tax list on the Downloads page here, including this correction and a couple others. It is free to users that hold the 2008 license for this tax list.

Jeff

I too am trying to add a herring gull (for Delaware) and I have not updated to 2008 ABA w/subspecies but have the 2007 ABA w/ subspecies.  Will I be able to do this or do I need to upgrade my list?

Thanks for your reply,

Debbie

Yes Debbie. Import the checklist file in the post above and you will be fine.

Let me know if I can assist further.

Jeff

Not sure how to import the .csv file (I can't seem to save the file from this forum). Will you please email it to me.

Thanks so much,

Debbie

Hello Debbie,

The instructions are specified above in another post above - after the attachment. Reproduced here.

1. Download the CSV file to your local disk
2. Start BD and select File | Import/Export
3. Click on the Checklists TAB
4. Select ABA w/subspecies 2008 (or 2007 in your case) from the taxonomy dropdown
5. Uncheck the Analyze checkbox
6. Check the Do Not Overwrite radio button
7. Click the first Import button and select the CSV file you downloaded, and click Open
8. Let the import run.

Saving a file from this forum to your local computer is different depending on which browser you are using (e.g. IE, Firefox, etc) Do not use Google Chrome! Easiest to use IE (Microsoft's Internet Explorer). All start by simply clicking on the CSV file above. IE asks you if you want to Save or Open. Choose Save, then select where on your local disk to save it. Firefox just allows you to Save. Then it downloads the file and opens a downloaded file window. Click on the file in that window and now you can save it to where you would like on your local disk.

Let me know if this doesn't get you going.

Jeff